HU tower rush

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HU tower rush

Post  Handy_Block on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:44 pm

Me and borrel have played some hu guys on LT who do a fast tower rush. We were UD and NE, and they rushed NE. Can't do shit about it, they just kill that base off.

Question is, do u guys got any suggestion of how to handle it?

This is what we did, which worked:

When we saw them towering, borrel aborted all buildings and started to pool me. He fled with all whisps and got DH out. I went spiders+DK and killed the creeps at my nearest mine, for him to start over on.

HU went AM as first hero and he harassed my mine. After that he went where borrel had his whisps and succeded to kill them all. So there we were, borrel "only" had DH left and i was almost unharmed.

Borrel creeped to get levels and pooled me the creepgold. I made another crypt and upgraded some ziggs incase more blizzharass. I helped borrel creep middle and the red dots, after which i started to attack the HU bases.

Thing is, the one who didn't tower rush, he techs to casters and mix em up with rifles. Also, towers alot so hard to get to his base. We manage to get DK lvl 6 and DH lvl 6. We manage to get the tower rush guys main base, and borrels old base. They expo ofc, on islands, and they got gyros who kills off my expo. We put more pressure on them and somehow manage to get the last main base they got left.

It ends up in a "chasing expo war" where we end up as winners.

Thing is, it feels like if HU are good, we wouldn't stand a chance to this strategy. But idk.....

I'll upload the replay when i come back, but think it through, what can one do differently?

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Re: HU tower rush

Post  Besteborrel on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:38 pm

I talked about it with Ani, and he says Tree of Life needs 4 hits on a scout tower to destroy it (unrooted).
So that maybe is an option, but i think its still a bit too slow to be able to keep the spot there.
But you can kill some towers maybe.

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Re: HU tower rush

Post  NiGhTwIsPeR_z on Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:15 am

If they are lucky and hit the Nelf then it is pretty hard to counter. But one alternative is to build one or two Ancient of war out of range from the towers. So you later can attack the towers with them and repair them with wisps. If you are fast to build Ancient of war one alternative is to build it very close the towers so you don't need to walk that long. You should also keep all your buildings out of range. Then if you pick DH you should pick Immolation as ability and focus all the workers. If you take down all the workers then you can take down all the towers with ancients and hero without the peasents reapiring the towers.
I don't have time to write a lot and I'm not the best on english.

/Joel
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Re: HU tower rush

Post  Handy_Block on Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:42 am

Hmm, yeah, might work.... and maybe even uprade the speed on the Ancient Tree....

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Re: HU tower rush

Post  Selverdion on Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:12 pm

It often becomes a tricky situation of the other team is good at it, so lets pretend they are for a moment. The last months we have done a few of these tower games and to be honest we have become pretty good a taking control of the situation. Imo the hardest race to have if they are good is ud, sure u got ziggs but then aint that good in a tower rush situation. I prefer hu, and getting towerd myself. Me and pat did a game vs orc towers like a month ago. They started out pretty good almost took my base down. But I started "counter-towering" with like four towers. Pat had UD and did a nice job keeping them away in start. Then he started cc while I started making cast and mort (still getting rushed) Blizz and holy light helped me alot in resisting there siege that came after a while. Then when I thought I had enough units, I tped too pats base and joined him in an attack from beheind and after some nice micro we won Smile. But back to the question what you can do when your mates base is getting taken down. Well it's all about an good estimation about how you can survive a tp to his base and take down enough of there units and heros. If you fell unserten of the outcome in a situation like that I start creeping immediately. If your team mate got nothing out from his/her base it's gona be hard. But if you got a hero to harras with while you creep to high level it will make things alot easier. Then after this it comes down too how fast you can creep and hitting there bases fast, in and out attacking becomes very effective, and alot of tp's. Then ofcourse they gona hit your base, if they dont. Take advantage of that and harras with one hero and keep them from creeping. Ultimetly when you play 1v2 it comes down too good micro and higher upgraded troops/heros. So my best suggestion is to become good at estimating the situation good Razz. Good luck out there!
//Hampus
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Re: HU tower rush

Post  ani_skywalker on Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:23 pm

Selverdion wrote:I prefer hu, and getting towerd myself.

I must disagree. NE are most often better than HU to defend towerrushing. If you dont think that you probably play them wrong vs towerrushers. They have the strongest mobile attack/defence in start with trees lifted. And their base are mobile if you need to leave that area. This is my thoughts:

scenario 1 (1v1/sometimes 2v2):
Pat already wrote what I do in 1v1. I just lift all trees. Most often I have tree of life and AoW before they get to upgrade their towers. With hero comin I take all their watch towers down. Then I go their base. If they cube I creep to meta, its just a matter of time before gg.

scenario 2 (2v2):
The solution above may not work in some 2v2 situations. It might be to many watch towers for you to take down and you see that they eventually will be able to get 3-4 towers upgraded. This is when the type of map is important. In a map like LT I would still suggest you lift your trees, but instead of attacking towers walk with them to the other goldmine close to your base, the one at the same side.

Usually i have 2 archers ready when my hero comes. With 2 archers and 1 hero you're able to creep the goldmine next to your base in LT. When tree of life and AoW reaches you just root them down and start mining again/making archers. At the same time you creep/go their base. Since they wasted gold on useless towers that no longer reaches you they put themshelf in a huge disadvantage.

scenario 3 (2v2)
In some team maps the walk is to long for the trees, there is no close goldmines. Or you are locked up by the rushers. Then I would suggest the same solution as Selv, TP to alies base. In that kind of games it may be a benefit to be HU since you can defend base longer by countertowering.

Also, I would say that in 2v2 your teammate always should go opponents base and take out their miners to slow their towering.

I really can't see how you can lose vs towerrushers if you are NE going archers. It's a much bigger challenge if you are UD going Fiends. UD doesn't have any kind of attack in start if they go Fiends. 2 gouls at the best.

Which race would you say are the best for towerrush? I would say orcs. Their builders are protected while making the tower, they dont need to tech when they finish the tower and if they are clever they also make a burrow close to their towers. That way they can hide peons when you try to kill them and get even more towers. I also think their towers are better than HUs at start when HU towers are not teched to full strenght. What's your thoughts?

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Re: HU tower rush

Post  Selverdion on Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:25 pm

What I ment kim is that i prefer to use humans in a 2v2 when the opponents tower rush. And it is alot better to have humans in that situation, and that becouse of the tower that will keep me protected. You cant defend against a tower rush alone (key word) when you got two players with heros, units and towers trying to take you down. If you have human you can do four fast tower and then defend while teching in the back of your camp. And at the same time the guy you play with can creep and get strong. Now it's also good with NE, since that opens for a counter attack at there camp.
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Re: HU tower rush

Post  ani_skywalker on Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:38 pm

Selv, it was me, Ani, that posted the comment about NE. But I didn't know they had heros too, I thought they went for Pats base with just workers, both of them.

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Re: HU tower rush

Post  Selverdion on Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:31 am

Ah I havnt yet learn't to read names properly Very Happy. And the thing im on about is that if they start tower rushing me, they cant exactly move to the other base when they have made like 5 towers just outside my base, will cost them too much. And that's why it's good to have human in that kind of situation since it allow you allows you defend alone. Should be said that the other team in that game was Orc NE and did, orc towerd and did some siege and grunts. NE did arch, dry and hunt if I dont remember wrong.


I have not yet tried to play with the buildings unrooted, but they are so god damn slow Very Happy. But none the less there is nothing wrong with trying something new out. So that is what I will do next time some idiot tower rushed me and I have NE Smile.

//Hampus
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Re: HU tower rush

Post  Besteborrel on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:42 pm

It was a 2v2 AT.

1 HU did 4 peasants on his Altar for fast AM.
1 HU did 3 workers to me and 1 for a lumber mill.
Before i had the AoW even halfly done they had 3-4 scout towers ready and 3 teching up.
Probably the rusher got pooled.

So i cancelled the AoW, and pooled Kim my gold.
The AM went after my wisps.
The other HU expo on my base, defended by some towers.

That part they did pretty good, but then they left a gap. Maybe too much doubts how to proceed and what kind of units they should play.
The wrong they did was that they went for Copters, and when Kim met them, they lost 75% of em cause web for nothing.
If they did tanks they would've won most likely.


Since no game is the same, its hard to discuss it, and what should be done and stuff.
But next game when it happens, i will try Ani's way, tho i think that there are too many towers too fast.

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Re: HU tower rush

Post  ani_skywalker on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:31 pm

Pat, I think so too. When you describe it like that it sound like to much. When I do that they have at most 2-3 scouts up, but most importent, they have 2 workers, never more. Its harder for them in 1v1 to collect lumber for the upgrades othervice. So with 3 workers I think Selvs solutions are better...atleast I have not tried my trick on that.

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